Episode 19 - Choosing Joy: Mindset, Purpose, & Connection with Dr. Christie McMullen
New Podcast Episode: Part 1 of My Conversation with Dr. Christie McMullen - Choosing Joy: Mindset, Purpose, & Connection with Dr. Christie McMullen
What happens when we choose to look for the good—not because life is easy, but because we want to move through it differently?
In the latest episode of Builders of a Better World, Ashlieya welcomes Dr. Christie McMullen for a warm, thoughtful conversation about joy, purpose, and the ways we care for one another.
An educator, keynote speaker, bestselling author, and host of the Productive Joy podcast, Christie brings a perspective grounded in a simple intention: leave people better than she found them. In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, she shares how that intention developed—and what it looks like in everyday life.
A Small Practice That Changed Her Perspective
During college, Christie experienced a painful season of family upheaval and loss. With so much outside her control, she made one small decision: write down good things in a Winnie the Pooh planner.
There were only three lines available each day. Sometimes, finding enough good to fill them felt difficult. A favorite food served in the cafeteria or a small moment that went well might be all she could identify.
Over time, that changed. She went from struggling to fill the lines to finding more good than the space could hold.
The circumstances weren’t suddenly perfect. But she was learning to notice differently.
That practice eventually made its way into her classroom, where she invited students to share something good that had happened in the previous day or two. What began as a personal habit became a way to build connection and set a different tone for learning.
Choosing Joy Without Making It Complicated
For anyone hoping to develop a more positive outlook, Christie’s encouragement is refreshingly manageable: start with one small thing.
Not five pages of journaling. Not a promise to feel positive all the time. Just one good thing noticed and acknowledged consistently.
She shares how her husband began his own gratitude practice with a daily phone reminder and a simple note. The point wasn’t to do it perfectly or make every entry profound. It was to create a practice he could return to.
That same relationship between intention and action sits at the heart of Productive Joy: finding what brings us joy and exploring how to turn it into something meaningful.
Purpose Begins with How We Treat People
As the conversation turns to purpose, Christie shares how her faith informs her desire to be a light for others. She also reflects on an important lesson she is still learning: caring for people doesn’t require giving away every part of yourself.
Ashlieya and Christie explore what it means to create environments where people feel supported and able to thrive—in workplaces, classrooms, relationships, and everyday interactions.
Their conversation makes room for different beliefs and experiences while returning to shared values: kindness, curiosity, intentionality, and a willingness to understand rather than judge.
Building a better world doesn’t always begin with a grand gesture. Sometimes, it begins with asking whether the way we’re treating someone is helping them succeed.
“Clear Is Kind”: A Reminder for Our Relationships
The episode also introduces Christie’s book, Learning Can Stick, and a phrase she discusses in it from Dr. Brené Brown: “Clear is kind.”
Ashlieya shares how reading that section offered a timely reminder in her own marriage. Even when we care deeply about someone, we can forget that they cannot read our minds.
Christie expands on that idea: before we can clearly communicate what we need, we may have to pause and identify it ourselves.
It’s a simple concept, but—as Christie points out—simple doesn’t necessarily mean easy. Clear communication takes intention, practice, and grace for ourselves and each other.
Listen now
Choosing Joy: Mindset, Purpose, & Connection with Dr. Christie McMullen is now available on Builders of a Better World. Listen on your favorite podcast player or ad-free below.
Listen for personal stories, practical encouragement, and an invitation to consider what you’re looking for—and what you might begin to notice when you choose to look for the good.
Part 2 continues the conversation with more on learning, laughter, authentic leadership, and bringing joy to life.
To connect with Dr. Christie McMullen, listen to her podcast, or purchase her book:
Dr. Christie McMullen website: https://www.aimwithus.com/
Learning Can Stick: Understand Your People. Build the Right Conditions. Drive Lasting Change. on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Can-Stick-Understand-Conditions/dp/B0HD1S1635/
Productive Joy Podcast: https://www.aimwithus.com/podcast
Transcript:
Welcome to Builders of a Better World Podcast, a space for depth, clarity, and honest conversation, where presence matters more than performance.
Ashlieya: Welcome back to Builders of a Better World podcast! I'm your host, Lieya, thank you so much for being here. We're virtually being joined by Dr. Christie McMullen, who I believe is coming to us from Florida, is that right still?
Christie: That is!
Ashlieya: Amazing. So I'm a huge fan of your work, Dr. Christie. I love calling you that, by the way.
Christie: Right back at you, Lieya.
Ashlieya: So you're a keynote speaker, you have your own podcast, you're also a best-selling author with a 25-year background in education and leadership. You're known as a human connection specialist, which I'm very curious to know more about. You help organizations and educators foster joyful, engaging environments through your AIM framework. Analyze, Improve, and Move. Definitely a contributor to building a better world, which is why you are here with me today. Thank you so much, Dr. Christie, it is delightful to have you.
Christie: Oh, I am so excited, Lieya. You and I got the opportunity to flip these roles, and, you were on my podcast, and you are just this bright light, and I am drawn to the bright light, so I can't wait to do this.
Ashlieya: Oh, thank you, thank you so much, I appreciate your kind words, and just everything about you, I personally feel, emulates and emanates positivity. Like, genuine… you speak about me being such a light. I have to say, not for cliched sentiment, but it takes one to know one, honestly, right? That which you see, you see with. You give this warmth and this vibe that is just really… it's beautiful, it's yummy, and it's very welcoming. It makes sense, it's totally in alignment with all of what you do.
This brilliant book, which we'll have the opportunity to chat more about. So… You being you, you being awesome, you radiating this, this just really lovely, just sense of… you literally… productive joy. Need I say more? Right? It makes so much sense that's your podcast, that is obviously of significance to you. Before we dive into all of that, I want to talk about you—your thoughts, your beliefs, how the inner workings of your mind has formed and developed, anything that you're willing to offer and share. There's power in understanding our beliefs, and in befriending our minds, and being really mindful of mindsets.
Christie: Yeah.
Ashlieya: Having said any of that, what would be a response for you? Just in sharing that, not even asking a question, just… what does that mean to you, mindset?
Christie: Yeah, so I believe that beliefs drive behaviors, right? And, I decided pretty young that I was going to look for the good. So actually what happened, this is really where my mindset developed, I suppose. I was in college. And my parents decided to get a divorce. I had never seen my parents fight, and then all of the sudden, the marriage was ending, and that hit me hard. Come to find out, there was a whole lot of behind-the-scenes fighting that I never saw. But, at that juncture, I'm away at college, we lost our house in bankruptcy, they literally auctioned off my bed, I had nowhere to go but my dorm room, and I was at a low, a real low.
And I realized I had to make a decision. And I don't know what made me make the decision. But I'm very grateful for it. I had a calendar, right? It was a Winnie the Pooh planner. And it had about 3 lines per day, right? I'm dating myself for sure. This is 1997. This would have been 1997. And I decided that I was gonna write good things on those 3 lines in that Winnie the Pooh planner. And some days, I could not come up with anything worth writing. The only things I could come up with was that they served celery in the cafeteria, because celery is my favorite food. I know that's ridiculous, but it actually is. I do really like some celery, and they finally served it in the cafeteria, or I didn't trip in front of that cute boy, right? That was all I could come up with. But what happened over that year is I went from not being able to find anything to say, to not being able to fit all the good things on those three lines. It was arguably the worst year of my life, and I learned to see the good, because I believe with my whole heart that what you look for is what you find.
So, in that moment, when things were bleak, I started to look for the good, and that stayed with me. So that happened when I was 19, and then when I had my first classroom, I taught high school, I would start my class with good things. I asked the kids, tell me something good that's happened to you in the last 24 to 48 hours. And they started with really ridiculous things like I helped an old lady across the street. I'm like, no, you didn't. You didn’t even cross the street to get here. Tell me what really good things happened.
And then all of a sudden, they started being honest and saying, we had a really good dinner last night, or, I asked a girl out and she said yes. And what that did is it shifted our 85 minutes that we had to spend together to focus on the good, because that's how we started. So, it started with me as a 19-year-old. It blossomed into me choosing to see the good, to see the joy. And what I have found over my life is that you will find what you're looking for. So I guess that's where my mindset comes from, is by choosing to look for the good.
Ashlieya: That's amazing. I love that so much. I love the story and the narrative. Obviously, you're a lecturer, clearly you're an educator. So, that was beautiful, the way that you just took us through that. Thank you so much.
I have a phrase, I don't know where I came up with it, maybe it came out of my own head. I believe that we kind of channel information as opposed to being the originator of certain information.
Christie: Oh, 100%.
Ashlieya: I love, I love the phrase, I say it all the time—it's in one of my books, which I promise you I'm sending to you—but it's seek to appreciate, and you'll never be disappointed.
Christie: Mmm…
Ashlieya: Right? There's intention, there's accountability, there's an action, and then there's a result. And I just… that's a… that's a… when we talk about mindset, that's very much what comes up for me, and that's what resonates in relation to what you just shared. Thank you. So, 19. That's a pretty… that's still young enough to really hit the ground running fairly early when it comes to being on the… erring on the side of optimism and positivity. For those of us maybe a little more progressed in years of life, How would you advise somebody making a shift in going from perpetuating or having more of a negative outlook on life to more of a positive one? Do you have words of wisdom other than a Winnie the Pooh journal?
Christie: Go buy a Winnie the Pooh planner.
Ashlieya: Right? Three lines, and have an affinity for celery.
Christie: Yes, celery is good for you. It's good.
Ashlieya: It's so good for you! It speaks so much to who you are as a human, that being your favorite food.
Christie: Yes, you've probably never met someone who actually claims celery as a favorite food. It's ridiculous, but it is true.
So, that's such a great question, Lieya, because I think it's unique to anyone and everyone, but I think the basics are the same. And the basics are: do one small thing. Don't go big, don't say, I'm only gonna see the good, and I'm gonna write 5 pages in a journal. That's why the three lines worked. Because some days I couldn't… I couldn't fill them. So don't go buy a journal that has a whole page. That's intimidating. Our brains don't work that way, right?
I've studied how our brains work my whole career, and I know that we get intimidated when we have a blank sheet of paper. So it has to be something doable. Maybe it's a note in your phone, maybe it's something that you get reminded of, but you have to give yourself grace. I think, what often happens with any habit, right, whether you're reading Atomic Habits, or you're looking at Jim Quick stuff, or… there's so much out there, right?
It's really about doing one small thing. So that small thing that I would recommend, if you're looking for more gratitude or positivity in your space, is to look for one… one positive, just one. And then the next day, maybe you'll see two, right? Or a week from now. But you have to be consistent. Consistency trumps talent—trumps everything, really. So, what could you do that you could do consistently?
My husband actually just disclosed this; I didn't know it. We are small group leaders, and we work with married couples. So, our church built a chapel for the sole purpose of outreach. But in order to get married there, you have to go through 4 sessions with a marriage mentor. Because marriage doesn't come with a rulebook, and it requires some effort. And so, we've worked with over 150 couples over the last 9 years, and we love it. But last night, we started with a small group of couples, and we're talking about gratitude. It's just ironic that all of this is coming together, but… works that way. So, he mentioned to the group, he had not mentioned it to me, that for the last 95 days, he has been writing one thing he's grateful for every day. He has a reminder on his phone that comes up at 8pm. Now, to know my husband, I'm the Pollyanna, and he's the pragmatic, “Oh no, that's not gonna work.” So the fact that he's been doing this for this long is pretty special. But your question was, how might somebody do this that doesn't typically see this way? He's 53, and he has managed to hold this habit for 3 months now. Because it was small, right? It was just a note in his phone, and sometimes it's a sentence, and sometimes it's a page.
But giving yourself enough permission to say, I'm just gonna do this one thing, is really the long answer to your question about how does somebody who's a little more advanced in age come up with that positivity?
Ashlieya: Excellent. That… yes, amazing. That is… that's… thank you. That was very perfect. There's no such thing as too long an answer, by the way. Yes, we love embellishments, we love just kind of indulging in the experience we get to have here, so thank you for taking the time. That's absolutely brilliant.
Let's go into, then, the origin story of productive joy. I'm very curious. We've been talking about this really wonderful trajectory that you were able to establish in having this brilliant focus on just seeing the good. So lovely. So, where did Productive Joy come into the timeline of things? I'm curious as to how it came into the timeline of both your personal life as well as your professional life, if you don't mind, and… of course, productive joy as a phrase is fabulous.
I would really love for you to define it in your own words as well.
Christie: Yeah. Okay, oh my gosh, that's fun, Lieya, and that can go in lots of different directions. Great. So, for years, to the tune of about… I'd say 6 or 7, I've been talking about the fact that people quit things that aren't fun. Right? We don't go to a movie a second time if we hated it the first time, we don't go on a second date with somebody that we had a miserable time with, but we ask people to go to work day after day after day, and we don't make it fun, and that's why people quit. Because people quit things that aren't fun.
So, in the book Learning Can Stick, I talk about four things that… these are the four human conditions necessary for people to thrive, and that's that you make it safe, logical, fun, and memorable. Yup, there it is! Yay! And the fun part doesn't look the same for everyone. So, what happened with Productive Joy is that I know that people quit things that aren't fun, I know that if we don't make work fun, people quit. So, ChatGPT and I got together, and I said, look, I would like to start a podcast.
And I would like this podcast to be about bringing more fun, right? I used the word fun. But I didn't want it to just be about work, I wanted it to be about life, and so I said, what are some titles? And it came up with a whole bunch of things. I wish I still had the list, I probably could go back and find it. But one of the choices was Productive Joy, and I'm like, “That's it!” Because it's… It's two things, right? And the cool part is—and you know because you answered this, so you guys gotta go listen to her podcast with me to find out what her definition of productive joy is—but I've had over 300 guests, and every single person has had their own answer, because Productive joy is personal, right?
So what I find joy in, and what you find joy in, does not have to be the same. But we have to find joy if we want things to go differently. And my whole goal is that fun should meet action, right? So it shouldn't just be that I have fun over here, and I do work over here. It's how can I bring the things that bring me that joy into something practical that can produce something. So that's where productive joy came from, and then it's kind of manifested into a way of being, right? That I just choose to look for the joy, and then figure out a way to turn that into action.
Ashlieya: I love that. So good, so good. So where in the timeline of life did that come up for you?
Christie: So the actual title “Productive Joy” is about 3 and a half years old. However, the making work fun part… probably a decade. And that makes me old, and there's a lot of things about that.
Ashlieya: No…
Christie: But what's fun is… well, to use that word, a little overuse that word, I mentioned how when I taught high school, I started every class with good things, right? And I had a young lady, her name's Taylor Stanley (shout out to Taylor), who, 10 years later, came back to me and said, “Do you remember doing these things with our class?” I did a lot of what I'm doing now with adults, with my high schoolers 20 years ago. 20… gosh. Yeah, well, 20… I've been an educator for 26 years.
So even my very first class, these are some things that I did. For example, I give scratch and sniff stickers to adults. But I started with stickers with my students. And Taylor was one that, 10 years later, what she actually called and told me was, Ms. McMullen, you'll never guess what I found. And I'm like, no, you're probably right. And she said, my sticker book. And I said, your what? She kept every sticker that I had ever given her in… on a piece of paper, right?
And it said “my sticker book” that she'd written in a highlighter in high school, and she stuck it in her yearbook and kept it, and literally, decades later, still has it. I have always created a space… my mantra in life is to leave people better than I found them, right? Builders of a better world. I want to leave people better than I found them. And that doesn't mean that they were bad or hurting or wrong when I found them, it just means I'm going to do no harm, at least intentionally.
And so, you asked how long productive joy has been a thing. I would say most of my life, but officially, I came up with the phrase three and a half years ago.
Ashlieya: And is that the age of the podcast as well, then?
Christie: Yes. Yeah, so it's been, it's been, well, let's see, in February, it will be 3 years that I've been doing the podcast.
Ashlieya: Congratulations! Over 300 guests is amazing. That's fantastic. For the viewers watching and listening to us now, where would they find your podcast if they wanted to?
Christie: So, it's anywhere you can find a podcast. So YouTube, Spotify, Apple, but then all of the other ones that I don't even know the names of, it goes to all of them. So, yes, please go listen and follow and share, because here's the thing, things like Builders of a Better World or of Productive Joy is just gonna give you that shot of B12 that you didn't know you needed. So, that's the whole hope.
Ashlieya: Yes, very good. The link is in the caption. Be sure to go check out Productive Joy Podcast, we have the link for you there. Amazing, that's so great. I love that and it was such a pleasure to be on your show. Obviously, that's why I was like, oh, we work so well.
Christie: Well, yes, we kind of hit it off, didn't we, Lieya? That was… we talked for a really long time.
Ashlieya: We're in alignment in a lot of things. We have very similar values, seemingly, and we have a lot of very mutual intentions, pure intentions, which is always so, so nice, so great. Okay. So, this… all of this, right, you had this really lovely… you took us through some mindset, a little bit of when you had a very pivotal transformation for yourself at the age of 19, so lovely. The trajectory that took you on, it birthed a couple of really brilliant things, one of which being the Productive Joy Podcast, as well as how you navigated a lot of your professional career. So, so great.
So when someone says… uses the word or phrase “define your purpose,” if you were to speak about this just as a sentiment or a concept for yourself… It can be anything pertaining to something spiritual, religious, something that is a little bit more grounded in simply what brings you joy, or any of the above and more. How would you define coming to the realization of what your life purpose is?
Christie: Hmm.
Ashlieya: And how do you define purpose?
Christie: Well, nothing like a loaded question, my love, right?
Ashlieya: I know, we’re going super deep. Take your time, no worries. But I would love a really authentic answer to that very, very layered, layered question.
Christie: It's a great question. Okay, so I mentioned I want to leave people better than I found them. The reason that that's important to me is because I am a Christian, and I know that sometimes I'm the only Jesus somebody might see. And I'm not indicating that I'm Jesus, that's not what I mean. What I mean is that light that we were talking about, this might be the only space that people see it. And so, I want to be a light. I want to be the sunshine. Now, what I am learning about myself—because I will be 50 this year, so we have come a long way—is that there also has to be some protection of self.
I've always been a giver. I've always been a, “I'm gonna give you everything that I have.” And I forgot to hold back a little bit for me. And so it's also about giving people permission to not give it all, but instead to take care of the humans. If you… if you've been… if you've spent any time with me in any space, you have heard me say, take care of your humans. Because I don't think we do a great job of it. I don't think we do a great job of it in the workplace; I don't think we do a great job of it in relationships. I think that's why the marriage mentoring's important to me. That's why we have a company called Intentionality Group, and what we do is we go into organizations and we protect the people.
Not protect like HR protect. Protect, create the conditions so that these people can thrive.
Ashlieya: Mmm.
Christie: Because nobody wants to be bad at their job. Nobody wants to wake up in the morning and say, “I am gonna suck at life today,” right? That's not who we want to be, but sometimes conditions are set up so that we are. So to answer your question, I see my purpose as showing people that there's another way to create spaces for the humans to be okay. Right? It doesn't cost you anything, and it doesn't have to be grand, it just has to be intentional. If we intentionally treat people—yes, there's the golden rule, the way we want to be treated, yes, that's part of it—but really, did we set people up for success or failure here? And how can we instead err on the side of success?
Did that answer your question?
Ashlieya: Absolutely, and you're answering in… You use two of my favorite words, thrive and intention.
Christie: Hmm.
Ashlieya: Which is another brilliant example of what I would consider to just be a serendipitous synchronicity, because thriving is very much attached to my purpose, right? Being an example of a human thriving, that's a big me. I'm just allowing myself to be seen and available in my endeavor and my intention to thrive in my humanness. That's who we are and what we do, so I love that. I love that so much.
I have questions. For those viewers that are Christian, yay! For those viewers not Christian, it's all still for you.
Christie: Yep.
Ashlieya: You can glean any sort of insight or benefit. As long as you seek to appreciate, you'll never be disappointed. So don't tune out here if I'm gonna ask a question about Christianity. Don't tune out, don't leave us. It's for the Christians and non-Christians all together. Were you raised in a Christian household? Was that a part of your family culture growing up? I'm just curious.
Christie: Yes, and… I grew up in Las Vegas. I don't think anybody is born and raised in Las Vegas and leaves with their innocence. It is… it is quite the place. So, I was born in 1976, in Vegas. Lived there until I was 11. In those years, my father had the longest-running comedy show in Vegas. It was actually… he had an afternoon show for a while, he also did nights, he played the hotels. You don't have that scene without a whole lot of worldliness being apparent, right? You just can't. It's too in your face.
And we went to church. The church that we went to, the pastor used to always say, “We have the best 10-minute sermon in town, because it's the only 10-minute sermon in town.” So, I think what I was taught about religion is that it isn't about religion, it's about relationship. And that it's personal. So, for those of you listening, if you don't understand what that means, go looking, right? So it's not about, did I… did I follow all the rules, and did I do this thing?
It's about a relationship with somebody who loves me unconditionally. That's so different, and I don't know that society always picks up on that, because people screw things up. So, if you have a certain view of church, it's probably because of people, not because of God. And if you have, we messed this up pretty good. So, your question was, was I raised in a Christian home? It was an and. Did I see all the things that I shouldn't have seen? Absolutely. Did I also see that there was a higher power? Yeah, absolutely. So it was a little bit of both.
Ashlieya: Excellent. You spoke earlier about productive joy, and how everyone has a different response to that phrase, and how they choose to define it, right? I speak very often about words are symbols, right? Words are symbols. And if we don't intentionally self-define things, we can subconsciously be defining things that are just projected from other people. And religion and sentiments around religion and the whole ideology of certain things can be very misunderstood, simply because the only real way of communication and passing down certain wisdoms or knowledge or parables is through story and through narrative and through language.
And the spoken word, there's just… there's a lot of room for misinterpretation, so… So, really intentionally, you're talking about religion being a very personal thing, and a personal relationship, and the church environment being about relationships. That's for all of us to very purposefully and intentionally self-define. It doesn't have to be an all-encompassing kind of a state, culture, perpetuation of one idea. It's far more nuanced than that, and that's speaking as somebody who's not religious, by the way, right? I speak about Christ consciousness, I'm all about Christ consciousness, I do everything I can to do speaking in workshops around Christ consciousness, and I'm not a Christian.
Christie: Yeah.
Ashlieya: So, that's… it's just a whole… it's a whole thing, but it's lovely.
Christie: Well, I think… and I love that about you, Lieya, because what I definitely see about you is an openness, right? Just… you're naturally curious, and it is impossible to be curious and judgmental at the same time. But I think society, especially in the age of social media, has taught us to be fully divided. You are either this, or you are that, and there is nothing in the middle. And I think we need a whole lot more in the middle. We need to be Kind, right? We're talking about clear is kind; we may get there. But we need to be kind to each other, we need to listen, we need to be curious, because the minute we turn on judgment, it is black and white, and nothing is black and white. Everything is a little bit of color, and a little bit of shade, and a little bit of mixing. And I don't think that it serves any of us to be too far in any camp of any kind.
Ashlieya: Yes.
Christie: Because it just isolates somebody, and when you're taking care of the humans you're not isolating people, and…
Ashlieya: Yes! I did a whole episode on navigating between the extremes, right? I describe it on a spectrum, and I say, the world is built on polarization. Polarization is essential, right? Down to the science of how things are created. I'm a big believer that science explains spirituality. I'm a very spiritual person. I'm a perpetuator of magic and miracles. I live in the land of fantastic woo-woo, and I'm also in the grounded, “Yes, but quantum physics says,” right? I love that. And so, understanding there's these extremes, there's contrast, right?
We need contrast, we need to recognize contrast, it's very important. But when it comes to states of being, as it pertains to mindset, as well as how we define things, I like to navigate somewhere in the middle, erring on the more high vibrating. So if this is, super, super, super high, and this is super, super low in any regard, I always talk about just dancing around the middle a bit. Anything that starts to come to either extreme is, in my opinion, I'm like, “Now we're imbalanced! We're imbalanced!”
You have the best orientation in order to have the full 360 perspective when you're navigating in that middle area. Not to say that you're navigating things from a neutral, non-dual, it's not that. You're always a little bit on the side of, I'm gonna err over here, and then you come back to here, right? It's like, it's a whole thing.
Anyway, I do want to talk about your book.
Christie: Yeah!
Ashlieya: So let's do that. So, Learning Can Stick, it's absolutely fantastic. It's a very simple read, which I really, really, really, really love.
Christie: By design.
Ashlieya: Obviously, well done. A guide to make every learning experience safe, logical, fun, and memorable. You are very much, very clearly, an advocate for that psychological safety that you're speaking about in creating this really lovely environment for people to truly thrive. One of my favorite words. Love it. There's a couple of things that… well, there's a… there's more than a couple. There are… this, to me, I just want to say.
So, as someone who facilitates workshops. This is like a workshop guide. This is like a how-to do your workshop, down to how to navigate structuring your curriculum or your content. Different approaches, breaks, structure, you literally break everything down. This is a brilliant how-to. I don't want to retitle it Workshop for Dummies, but it could be that.
Christie: Well, so fun fact, we did do some retitling. Look, so you have the original, which is very exciting. We just rebranded in 2026 a little bit, and…
Ashlieya: So good.
Christie: It says, understand your people, build the right conditions, and drive lasting change, because that is exactly what it is. It's a how-to guide. It's a… so I wrote it for non-educators, for the purpose of: we are teaching people things all day, every day. Every human on this planet is teaching people things. And many of us don't have the tools necessary to be great at it, because we were never taught how. So, it's not that you can't be great at it and have not had an education background, because Lord knows, an education background means nothing in terms of how to teach.
It's not until you do it that you learn it. What would it look like if we created beautiful learning environments where people could thrive? So yeah, I'm glad you caught all of that.
Ashlieya: It's also, it's great as well for just… and I am going to read a short section from it, as well as highlights. A couple of my favorite parts.
Christie: Yay!
Ashlieya: It's really difficult to choose, but… You obviously have a substantial amount of skill set, both earned through education, but also, I think, just somewhat inherently in who you are as a person, to be a leader, to be a leader, right? If there's anybody even listening to this episode that has… we all are leaders in aspects of our life, you were just speaking about that. If you're a mom, if you're a sister, if you're a daughter, if you're a co-worker, if you're a sub, you have a group of people that you contribute to in some way that you influence.
And if nothing else, this is an excellent “how to be a positive influence” when you're wanting to contribute to something—a situation, circumstance, relationship—constructively, right? And a big part of that is the idea or concept behind “clear is kind.” Which I love. So, in this wonderful book… One of my new favorites, and I've recommended it already to, I swear to God, 25 people. I need my own Amazon purchase code.
Christie: Oh my gosh, if I knew how to do that… I'll figure it out, I'll figure it out.
Ashlieya: Genuinely. So, on page 34, it's Chapter 2. There's a lovely little section that is titled, “Begin with Clarity of Purpose.”
Christie: Hmm.
Ashlieya: Yeah? We've been speaking a lot about intention already, because it's just so ingrained in how you and I move through the world, right? This speaks a lot about that. “Learning…” I'm reading now.
Christie: Yes.
Ashlieya: “Learning about something that is relevant and useful will stick more than something obscure and non-applicable.” Makes sense. “Great trainers make the why abundantly clear. During a recent project management training, I learned a phrase from Dr. Brene Brown that will forever change my approach to, well, almost everything. Quote, clear is kind. End quote.
“Our church built a chapel a couple years ago, and my husband and I serve as marriage mentors for that chapel. Every couple getting married in the chapel must go through four mentoring sessions prior to their wedding.”
You mentioned this earlier. The reason I’m reading this is because I'm married, I have a wonderful husband, and you go through little marriage moments.
Christie: Everyone does.
Ashlieya: Yesterday, we had a marriage moment.
Christie: Mmmm.
Ashlieya: And I picked this up and went to re-read a couple of the things, and I randomly opened to this page.
Christie: Meant to be!
Ashlieya: Which is why I'm reading it for you now, because it was helpful for me literally yesterday.
“We use our 21 years of marriage as a roadmap to equip these couples with the tools they need to fight fair and love completely. The number one tool we give our couples is ‘clear is kind.’ In a marriage, the spouse can never read the other person's mind. No amount of time together allows that to happen,” unfortunately.
Christie: I know, right?
Ashlieya: “Instead, spouses need to be clear with their needs, expectations, desires, and wants if they ever wish to have those needs met.”
Christie: Mmm hmm.
Ashlieya: Everything, it seems so simple, but even… but me, as a therapist, as a mindset specialist, as an educator myself, right, I write curriculum, I've written curriculum around social-emotional learning, as well as just emotional literacy in general, for adults, kids, multiple different programs, and I needed to hear this yesterday. Right? It's something that you just, every once in a while, need a reminder, a little facepalm, ugh. I need to clarify exactly what I mean, break it down, be the perpetuator of an environment that's nurturing and safe, and go, hey, let me very concisely articulate this right now, with the intention to be of service: of service to myself, of service to our relationship, of service to my husband.
This is, right, something so simple: “clear is kind,” that you spoke about, Dr. Brene Brown, and that phrase being such an impactful moment in your life. Reading that part of that book was a very impactful moment for mine.
Christie: Oh, wow.
Ashlieya: So, I had to share that, because it was, just, again, seemingly so simple, profoundly, profoundly, profoundly relevant. And impactful in what I was experiencing. So small, we had, just a little, meh-meh-meh moment, like you do when you're married.
Christie: Of course, because we're human, and we can't read each other's minds, and we don't ever get better at that. And the reality is, most things that are effective are simple. We overcomplicate the fire out of life, and it's not necessary. But what we have to remember is that simple doesn't mean easy. The knowing-doing gap is very real, and if I know better, I'm supposed to do better, but do I always know, right? I know that I should eat healthy and exercise and get enough sleep and do all of those things, but am I conscious of it on the daily? Maybe not, right? Because I really like ice cream, or whatever it is.
But with something like “clear is kind,” the simplicity of it… Dr. Brene Brown is brilliant, and she has lots of phrases.
Ashlieya: Yes, sure.
Christie: That’s one that, when you can say it in three words, you've knocked it out of the park.
I think what happens in work, in life, in marriage, in all of those parts, is that we overcomplicate things, and we need to just take it all the way back. I think what I like about “clear is kind” is it requires me to figure out what it is I need first. So often, we throw blame on our partner, or somebody at work, or whatever it is but we never told them what we needed.
And it's because we maybe didn't even know, but I know it wasn't that, right? I know that you didn't just give it to me, but then what was it? And so, it's learning how to ask for what we need, and then give grace if it doesn't get exactly done right the first time, because it actually takes 18 times of doing something in front of others to master it, so you're not gonna get it right the first time. And you're probably not gonna get it right the 18th time, either.
You gotta keep trying. It's just gonna be better the 18th time than it was the first.
Ashlieya: I love that. I love that. I love that so much. So, we're gonna do part two. We're gonna have this podcast part one, so stay with us. Yes, Dr. Christie McMullen, love you, thank you so much for being here. We're gonna continue in part two with our conversation around this brilliant book, and I, again, will be sharing a couple other just really, just gem gifts that are in this beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece of work. So please stay tuned, and continue on for podcast part two. Otherwise, thank you so much for joining us on this podcast, Builders of a Better World.
If you're interested in Dr. Christie's wonderful podcast that she has on her own, Productive Joy, you can find the link in the caption of this episode today, and stick around for part two, because it's going to be another wonderful conversation. Thank you so much, let's build a better world.
Thank you for joining us here at the Builders of a Better World podcast. Please share, subscribe, comment, and be sure to pass this episode along for anyone who may need it. See you next time.
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